Monday, January 14, 2013
“WHY DO WE NEED DISCUSSION AT ALL”
I had asked -------“WHY DO WE NEED DISCUSSION AT ALL”
Let me try to explain it.
Truth as we know is always relative. Forget the so called spiritual Truth for the time being.
What is the meaning of truth? ----It simply means that “after knowing which the desire to know/understand that thought “fades away/is no more there”. It is like fading away of thought of hunger (feeling hungry no more) after having meal. This applies to all truth including spiritual one, if there is any.
Just for the purpose of understanding I am considering following types of truths. Please bear with me.
1. Conceptual truth—Which has no existence of its own but are very helpful in communication. Example- All alphabets/words/phrases/senten
2. Objective truth—The things which can directly or indirectly be perceived by sense organs. They are existential truth and normally do not require discussion.
3. Logical truth — The results which are very much objective truth but how it has arrived/resulted are not known at all. To understand this situation (how) there come a no. of theories/principles/concepts with the help of which we try to logically understand the process/path involved. Whether these conceptual principles are correct or not is immaterial. This mostly applies to science and also in day to day discussion when we try to guess.
4. Agreed truth- This covers our languages/expressions of communication. For example --This is tree, this is sun, and moon, air, etc. like that — This normally does not require discussion.
5. Localised truth— The thoughts agreed between two or more but not accepted by all.
6. Universal truth—The thoughts which have been accepted by the human as a whole. This does require discussion from time to time as updating. This normally does not require discussion.
Now come to the point:
Is it not true that without the activities of brain cells neither anything can be experienced nor expressed as sound or written words or in any way like that ?
Is it not true that none of the desires is ours? They are just subtle expressions (in the form of reactions) of life itself which is expressed in response to outer/inner circumstances surrounding our bodies?
Does it not appear that all what we are discussing are only because of the training imparted to the brain cells?
Is it not true that in all the states of awareness(except deep sleep state i.e. non-REM sate) we are "unconsciously/unknowingly" engaged in trying to "get rid of/free ourselves from" thoughts/desires (spiritual thoughts/desires included) by way of fulfilling those thoughts/desires which are continuously welling up/appearing in our 'mind/consciousness' ?"
Take simple examples to understand this happening.
In the morning after waking up "a thought" related to "having a cup of tea" appears and it gets expressed when we ask somebody “whether tea is ready?” If the answer comes “yes” then that thought (“having a cup of tea”) gets annihilated/fulfilled and we become free from that thought/desire.
If answer comes “no” then another thought appears and gets expressed as “what is the problem?” It (the next thought) again gets annihilated/fulfilled by another answer and we become free from that thought/desire again.
This series of processes (appearing of thoughts/desires--expressing/t
CONCLUSIONS:
Purpose:
1. The whole purpose of discussion (inside means thinking or outside means interacting with others) on any thought is to come to a common understanding (when one does not feel the need of more thinking or interacting as one feels satisfied because the force behind the desire to understand comes to not) so that one gets/finds oneself free from the action of that particular thought, albeit most of the time we are not aware about this desire of getting freedom. But this is temporary relief from discussion because in view of some better inputs later on this may get started again and may come to a temporary end again. This series of start and end continue.
2. But the problem with so called spiritual or religious thoughts is that they being perhaps purely conceptual and subjective/individual cannot survive without discussion and are never ending too. This gives the maximum ego satisfaction and so called never ending so called bliss/ananda/ etc.
3. “””Hence truth does not require discussion and which is not truth cannot survive/exist without discussion.””
Let me try to explain it.
Truth as we know is always relative. Forget the so called spiritual Truth for the time being.
What is the meaning of truth? ----It simply means that “after knowing which the desire to know/understand that thought “fades away/is no more there”. It is like fading away of thought of hunger (feeling hungry no more) after having meal. This applies to all truth including spiritual one, if there is any.
Just for the purpose of understanding I am considering following types of truths. Please bear with me.
1. Conceptual truth—Which has no existence of its own but are very helpful in communication. Example- All alphabets/words/phrases/senten
2. Objective truth—The things which can directly or indirectly be perceived by sense organs. They are existential truth and normally do not require discussion.
3. Logical truth — The results which are very much objective truth but how it has arrived/resulted are not known at all. To understand this situation (how) there come a no. of theories/principles/concepts with the help of which we try to logically understand the process/path involved. Whether these conceptual principles are correct or not is immaterial. This mostly applies to science and also in day to day discussion when we try to guess.
4. Agreed truth- This covers our languages/expressions of communication. For example --This is tree, this is sun, and moon, air, etc. like that — This normally does not require discussion.
5. Localised truth— The thoughts agreed between two or more but not accepted by all.
6. Universal truth—The thoughts which have been accepted by the human as a whole. This does require discussion from time to time as updating. This normally does not require discussion.
Now come to the point:
Is it not true that without the activities of brain cells neither anything can be experienced nor expressed as sound or written words or in any way like that ?
Is it not true that none of the desires is ours? They are just subtle expressions (in the form of reactions) of life itself which is expressed in response to outer/inner circumstances surrounding our bodies?
Does it not appear that all what we are discussing are only because of the training imparted to the brain cells?
Is it not true that in all the states of awareness(except deep sleep state i.e. non-REM sate) we are "unconsciously/unknowingly" engaged in trying to "get rid of/free ourselves from" thoughts/desires (spiritual thoughts/desires included) by way of fulfilling those thoughts/desires which are continuously welling up/appearing in our 'mind/consciousness' ?"
Take simple examples to understand this happening.
In the morning after waking up "a thought" related to "having a cup of tea" appears and it gets expressed when we ask somebody “whether tea is ready?” If the answer comes “yes” then that thought (“having a cup of tea”) gets annihilated/fulfilled and we become free from that thought/desire.
If answer comes “no” then another thought appears and gets expressed as “what is the problem?” It (the next thought) again gets annihilated/fulfilled by another answer and we become free from that thought/desire again.
This series of processes (appearing of thoughts/desires--expressing/t
CONCLUSIONS:
Purpose:
1. The whole purpose of discussion (inside means thinking or outside means interacting with others) on any thought is to come to a common understanding (when one does not feel the need of more thinking or interacting as one feels satisfied because the force behind the desire to understand comes to not) so that one gets/finds oneself free from the action of that particular thought, albeit most of the time we are not aware about this desire of getting freedom. But this is temporary relief from discussion because in view of some better inputs later on this may get started again and may come to a temporary end again. This series of start and end continue.
2. But the problem with so called spiritual or religious thoughts is that they being perhaps purely conceptual and subjective/individual cannot survive without discussion and are never ending too. This gives the maximum ego satisfaction and so called never ending so called bliss/ananda/ etc.
3. “””Hence truth does not require discussion and which is not truth cannot survive/exist without discussion.””
Nisargadatta Maharaj talks about Osho
Nisargadatta Maharaj talks about Osho
(Apparently in response to a question about Osho)
SNM:
"Rajneesh(Osho) is not a small personality or small principal".
"He is tremendous."
"He is very big."
"He is a great sage."
From " Consciousness and the Absolute: " --Chapter Sixty One. June Nine, 1981.
(Apparently in response to a question about Osho)
SNM:
"Rajneesh(Osho) is not a small personality or small principal".
"He is tremendous."
"He is very big."
"He is a great sage."
From " Consciousness and the Absolute: " --Chapter Sixty One. June Nine, 1981.
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